tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-60437669680290811.post259737670736624398..comments2024-03-24T18:41:14.098-07:00Comments on Shamsuddin Waheed: Racism: a spiritual disease: thoughts on the Alt-Right movement under the lense of the Qur'anShamsuddin Waheedhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04457661333236229563noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-60437669680290811.post-39631556010301956472017-08-28T10:56:36.676-07:002017-08-28T10:56:36.676-07:00No, I am done trying to find value in the Qur'...No, I am done trying to find value in the Qur'an. My mind is exhausted from the effort of navigating around the myriad of bigotry in that book. Just about any other source I've read deals with the sins of its own people without projecting those faults onto "the other". How much patience should I have for a book full of "Don't commit the same sins as the Jews, the Christians, the polytheists, the Hypocrites, etc."? It might have been alright for an isolated community in Arabia, but it is a terrible way to preach in a world where we all have to live side-by-side.<br /><br />While I appreciate your efforts and your patience to help me understand Islam, I am disappointed that you are not able to think outside this highly constrained viewpoint.Non Believernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-60437669680290811.post-2181728806931725512017-08-28T09:12:39.077-07:002017-08-28T09:12:39.077-07:00Hello NB!
In answer to the queries you have state...Hello NB!<br /><br />In answer to the queries you have stated above, The Madinan Hypocrites were more than simply political players, they represented a serious danger to the society. <br /><br />Rather than focusing on the Madinan hypocrites, the article intended to look at the qualities that are mentioned in the Qur'an [I admit the article does not treat the subject exhaustively] to see if the same are found in certain folks today. My conclusion is that the same qualities or characteristics are present.<br /><br />I think the root of the difference between us is that I operate from a perspective that there is a Divine Reality which has the ability to explain things, including the core thinking patterns of certain parties, while you deny this.<br /><br />Having power simply for the sake of power is an unhealthy situation. There is a hadeeth which reports that Prophet Muhammad himself said that we should not give position to the one seeking it. The seeker has in his heart a desire for glory, which leads to corruption. We are encouraged to give position to those who are already doing the work out of a sense of social duty and responsibility.<br /><br />Even looking at what we know of 'Abdullah ibn Ubayy, his power seemed to have been built upon vice. Moreover, The Prophet entered Madinah [known as Yathrib in those days] at the invitation of certain parties there, in order to help bring reconciliation between warring parties. This suggests to me that the "hypocrites" were deeply involved in those things which were destroying the society, yet they benefitted, financially and politically, and they didn't want to see the gravy train disappear.<br /><br />I see parallels with those who are into the racist thinking and ideologies today. The article gives bullet point summaries of why this seems to be the case.<br /><br />Even if a person does not believe the Qur'an is of Divine Origins, I think it is worth it for a student of history and human civilization to take a deeper look at what it says on these sort of subjects.<br /><br />HaShamsuddin Waheedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04457661333236229563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-60437669680290811.post-53133303914289102502017-08-26T10:11:54.968-07:002017-08-26T10:11:54.968-07:00"the Qur'an seems to point out characteri..."the Qur'an seems to point out characteristics of <b><i>these types of folks</i></b>, namely that they see themselves as deserving of power and authority"<br /><br />What types of folks? The Madinan Hypocrites where people who lived in Madina who did not support Muhammad but chose to appear as if they did. I understand their motivation for this deception. Do you understand their motivation?<br /><br />One of these, Abdullah ibn Ubayy, according to your sources, felt that he deserved power and authority. He did have power and authority prior to Muhammad's arrival which was usurped. I can understand why he might have felt "entitled". Do you understand why he might have felt this way?<br /><br />Then, you take these two things and conclude that <b><i>generally all Hypocrites</i></b> tend to feel this sort of entitlement.<br /><br />It is faulty logic leading to an absurd conclusion. The reason I object to this type of writing is that I would be such a Hypocrite in those same circumstances and you have no reason to conclude that I would feel the same sort of entitlement that someone who had his power usurped would feel.<br /><br />It's not hard to name the group in Madina who best exemplified as seeing themselves as deserving of power and authority. I will take a fresh look at the article with that in mind.Non Believernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-60437669680290811.post-82566387979728868852017-08-23T11:28:55.919-07:002017-08-23T11:28:55.919-07:00Hello NB!
Hopefully this reply finds you well.
...Hello NB!<br /><br />Hopefully this reply finds you well. <br /><br />I understand that you are not someone who believes in the existence of God or in Divine revelation to man, however that was not really the point of this article. The point this article sought to bring out is that there can be found within the Quranic narrative very interesting and insightful observations that seem to fit those who are today following the calls of racism and feelings of ethnic superiority.<br /><br />The Qur'an, as a source of information consulted by a forth of humanity, because of it's importance to the human story, it should be considered, even if it's only for the sake of knowing the "other", and this does not negate the possibility that insights can be gleemed from non religious sources as well.<br /><br />As for some of the issues you have mentioned in your remarks above, let us divide it into these categories. [1] 'Abdullah ibn Ubayy [not referenced in the article at all, and who is not mentioned by name in the Qur'an itself] is called the leader of the Madinan Hypocrites. It is said that he was not only a leading Madinan figure, but that he also had a hand in such things as prostitution. The historical sources [often cited in Quranic commentaries] tell us of direct actions he took against the Prophet and the Muslims, yet, as you mentioned, the Prophet did not really do anything against him in retaliation. It is said that his own son [i.e. Abdullah ibn Ubayy's son] was a dedicated Muslim who was willing to execute his own father for his actions, however the Prophet did not agree to that. Rather, when 'Abdullah ibn Ubayy died, the Prophet himself led his funeral prayers, he was buried in a shroud the Prophet himself provided. In any case, coming back to the overall point [in connection to White Supremacy], the Qur'an seems to point out characteristics of these types of folks, namely that they see themselves as deserving of power and authority. Please have a fresh look at the article.<br /><br /><br />[2] As for apostasy, that is another issue, one which I have studied and continue to look at. I have read some accounts, even intelligent ones, regarding people who have decided to leave Islam. It is not something I am blind to, even if I do have my own views on both the Islamic textual treatment of the subject and how Muslim social order[s] treat them. In these regards, I see it as a different issue, one of doubts which have not been addressed properly.<br /><br />I did read your email and will share a reply soon, God willing.<br /><br />Regards<br />S WaheedShamsuddin Waheedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04457661333236229563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-60437669680290811.post-86424790240798520992017-08-21T06:48:33.861-07:002017-08-21T06:48:33.861-07:00My source for historical context for Al-Munafiqun ...My source for historical context for Al-Munafiqun is from the Surah Info on quran.com which uses Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi - Tafhim al-Qur'an - The Meaning of the Quran. It is obvious to any reader that these backgrounds have a very strong Muslim bias. No surprise!<br /><br />I continue to ask you to try to see past this bias and look at Islam from a non-Muslim perspective. If you don't try to think about the Quran the way the members of your audience who are not Muslims think about it, you will fail to connect with them. Just some friendly advice! <br /><br />In Maududi's comments, he explains that this Surah was revealed in the context of the "hypocrite" Abdullah bin Ubayy. A critical reader should not simply accept this biased account as fact, but must contemplate how Abdullah bin Ubayy would describe these events. To compare him to a White Supremacist is simply wrong.<br /><br />The commentary describes how Abdullah bin Ubayy's power was taken away from him after Muhammad's arrival in Madinah. It is clear that he did not genuinely accept Muhammad's rise to power. He judged that it was unwise to openly oppose Muhammad. This is by no means uncommon. His hypocrisy was exposed and what happened happened. I don't think Muslims should judge him too harshly. That Muhammad chose not to murder him was a political decision, as described by Maududi, besides which this represents the very lowest standard for measuring tolerance. Other Madinan opponents were not treated so well when the politics required harsher treatment.<br /><br />I think you are blinding yourself if you cannot see that there are people both in Muhammad's time and in the modern day who are forced to be outwardly Muslims. Apostasy is a serious crime in some countries and even in moderate places, including the West, leaving Islam has significant social consequences. You should check out the many ex-Muslim websites with accounts written by people who have chosen to endure this.Non Believernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-60437669680290811.post-38146836557021196602017-08-20T16:45:24.566-07:002017-08-20T16:45:24.566-07:00Hello NB!
Thanks for your feedback!
With regard...Hello NB!<br /><br />Thanks for your feedback! <br /><br />With regards to associating the Quranic "hypocrites" with the Alt-Right movement, the issue is that it seems that they share the same characteristics. Moreover, although not really highlighted in this article, the Qur'anic overview of hypocrisy [and even Kufr] is that it is connected with crimes within the physical world. In other words, "rejector" is a symonymous with "transgressor" " chaos-maker" and so forth. It is more than a religious title.<br /><br />In the time of the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, it should be noted that Muslims, despite their influence, were still a minority, atleast for a while, which is why the Prophet entered into what is known as the Madinan constitution or agreement between the various groups [including religious groups] as to how Madinah was to be governed. <br /><br />Indeed, in both Qur'an and hadeeth references, we can find examples of Non Muslims insulting and ridiculing the Prophet- in Madinah- to his face! This has been brought up to show that "hypocrisy" [pretending to believe when in fact one is rejecting] was not really a necessary move to make. The Prophet was not killing people as it seems to be that some believe. There is an interesting book I think would be useful in the study of the Prophet, particularly in the political realm. If you are interested in the title, let me know and I will pass along the title so you can acquire it at your leisure. <br /><br />Regards,<br />S WaheedShamsuddin Waheedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04457661333236229563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-60437669680290811.post-38038529291043465862017-08-19T19:02:27.737-07:002017-08-19T19:02:27.737-07:00Hi Waheed.
The existence of these extremists is i...Hi Waheed.<br /><br />The existence of these extremists is indeed troubling. However, I am bothered by your association of these people as Qur'anic "hypocrits". The situation in Madinah at the time of the revelation of Surah Al-Munafiqun would have been that the non-Muslims were now the minority. I have no trouble imagining myself among their numbers; someone who does not accept the prophethood of Muhammad but is forced to maintain a public appearance of loyalty to him. I could also imagine someone today in the heart of the Muslim world in that situation. The verses where Muhammad claims to know what these people are saying in private (63:7-8) are not unlike the lies that are told by the empowered about dissidents today.<br /><br />It is good that you are aware that you may be speaking from a prejudiced viewpoint, but I must remind you that situations reverse themselves when the power is with the opposite side.Non Believernoreply@blogger.com